Dragon Force RG65

Welcome aboard Alan and I like your thinking Hew.

DF comes down to skipper ability rather than the 'arms race' that Hew sites so well. IMHO, that makes it both very accessible and an excellent learning vehicle for us noobies. We sail against experienced skippers, like for like and learn a lot.

And if an ABS boat beats a carbon dream ... as some did in our Nats last year ?? Frowned upon, why??

My point is, let's not put Dragon Force down because it isn't a carbon dream. It isn't, so let's accept it for what it is and see the fleets grow.

Take care

Joanne

 

Alan - just a very fine point of correction ..... 1. There is no such class as an "open RG65" - it is strictly an RG65 Class that is developmental with a few rules to keep sizes close. (Length, sail area, mast height and a few others)

2. It just so "happens" the DF is of the same length and has a few other measurements that make it an RG65 - However, it is being promoted as a "One Design" class with very limited options for changes out-of-the-box.

3. The problem (as I see it) is the easy way a new sailor to the r/c world could easily confuse a DF as being competitive for the (approximate) purchase price of around $175 (US) I would prefer they sell it as a "One Design Dragon Force" boat that is 65cm in length. No confusion, no mis-representations, no "fine/small" print. And in the end, absolutely no expectations a stock boat will be an RG65 Class "killer".

I like the boat as an entry level r/c sailboat, with (hopefully) a manufacturer that will continue to support the class with parts/accessories - class legal - once the saturation of new sales is reached, and sales (in numbers) taper off. I would like to see the three big promoters of the class, sit down and start making needed rules changes (with timely postings) based on legitimate questions and comments being voiced, (as by Haegar regarding a "possible" under sized jib noted earlier in the thread) as an example. Once the DF class is established, and owners have the opportunity to sail in a combined RG65 and Dragon Force class event, it will be up to the individual owner to decide what to do and how well he can sail against other RG65's and if he wants to spend more money to move out of the DF one design class/fleet.

What I hope "doesn't" happen, is for a very good r/c sailor with a one design DF showing up at a local club and winning the RG65 Class and giving the impression a stock boat can best the other more costly boats sailed by owners with lesser sailing abilities. Kind of like "cherry picking" and giving false hopes. Sell the boat that it is - not that what it can someday be .....maybe!

Good quote to keep in mind for those promoting the DF one design class ......... "It is ----what it isn't!"

Dick
USA RG65 #05

 

:what: ...yeah right Dick (you did good job of totally confusing me)

I understand the DF is basically a replica of the ICE ... therefore both are RG-65 class boats ?

Amended quote ...."if it looks like duck, walks like a duck & talks like a duck ....it's a duck!" right?

The only difference is that the DF is a massed produced which lends itself to "one design" with standardised equipment, RG-65 class racing.

Then if the DF skipper would like to step out of the "one design" fleet and move into the "open design" fleet with improved performance using paneled sails etc etc.... they can do so, right ?

Finally if a "skipper" is good enough to win races with a "open design" DF it will be testimony of not only the capability of the modified boat but also the ability & skill of the skippers....no smoke and mirrors there !

The results of the English 2013 Nationals prove this:



I doubt very much that a "one design" standard DF would ever be competitive among an "open design" RG-65 fleet however, 10 from 22 in the English RG-65 Nats were DF boats that were not doubt modified to what I call ... Open design.

 

Hi Joanne & welcome

NeKst or NeKst Round? Both are nice boats and easy to build. (sorry for being off-topic ...)

 

Nope. Apart from some upgraded sails (all single paneled as per one design rules) all the DF65s present, including the one sailed to 5th place overall were using original fins, ballast, rigs and servos. One (which made it into the A fleet for one race) was sailing exactly as it came out of the box - including the dragon sails - as it had been bought and rigged at the lakeside the day before.

Cheers
Matt
GBR20

 

Thanks for update Matt ... do "up-graded sails" not take the DF boats out of One design rule ?

Cheers Alan

 

No, the one design rules allow the owner to make or buy new sails to the same dimensions as the manufacturers sails. These have to be single panel and there are some other restrictions on reinforcement etc. I have made my own but there are currently at least three suppliers in the UK making A B & C sails.

The full one design rules are available on the Dragon Force website http://dragonforce65.com/one-class-rules/

Cheers
Matt
GBR20

 

I see that DF's were 5th & 7th in the USA nationals at the weekend. Having sailed a couple now & raced against many with an Rg65 myself, it's about time some accept these boats are far more competitive then their price would suggest.

 

I agree. But I would think skipper skill is still what matters most.
I would like two guys from the top ten to try them one-on-one agains their own boats. I mean, let one of them race his own boat, and the other race a DF65. Then switch and race again.
Then hear their comments.

 

For the test to be conclusive, you would have to perform those match races under varying weather conditions. From what I have heard, the DF isn't that competive in light breezes, but as the wind picks up it becomes more so.

 

The US Champs were sailed in light winds and some chop. The top DF skipper, Brig North, can hold his own with the other RG skippers that finished above him in other classes, like IOMs. Given some top of rig conditions I bet he would have been in the top three, or very close.

No one that I know is hoping to compete with RG65's at the top level, but want to sail a regatta against other DF one design boats. If we are competitive with them in a few races, fine, but it's not the objective!

 

We did some Dragon force racing yesterday at one of our local Ponds and finally got a chance to test Eric Rosenbaum 's Dragon Force Swing Rig Mod! This test was against other DFs and Rich Hoffman 's Yankee Clipper RG65. See the video exclusively at: http://www.rg65usa.org/video.html